Traditionalist Catholic doctrine that the current pope is duly-elected but lacks the authority to teach or govern unless he recants the Second Vatican Council
Sedeprivationism is a doctrinal position within traditionalist Catholicism invented by the excommunicated Catholic theologian Michel-Louis Guérard des Lauriers which holds that the current occupant of the Holy See is a duly-elected pope, … Wikipedia
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Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism - Wikipedia
May 7, 2026 - Sedeprivationism is a doctrinal position within traditionalist Catholicism invented by the excommunicated Catholic theologian Michel-Louis Guérard des Lauriers which holds that the current occupant of the Holy See is a duly-elected pope, but lacks the authority and ability to teach or to govern ...
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Wiktionary
en.wiktionary.org › wiki › sedeprivationism
sedeprivationism - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
2021 July 1, Kevin J. Wetmore Jr., The Conjuring, Liverpool University Press, →ISBN, page 57: Father Gordon in the Conjuring films was based upon Bishop Robert McKenna, O.P. (1927-2015), a longtime associate of the Warrens and Tridentine Catholic who believed in sedeprivationism; that is to say that he only performed mass in […]
Discussions

What are the problems with the sedepriv position?
If the Popes are capable of authoritatively teaching heresy and the world's bishops in near unanimity can define and declare heresy in an ecumenical Council, and the papacy can be impotently held for generations, if not centuries or even forever, lacking their sacramental, teaching, and even liturgical authority, then the Catholic Church is dead and probably always was - that's the problem of sedeprivationism. The papacy lost it's true authority now? At least Protestants offer a more realistic end date around the time of Constantine. Sede theology - when you really dig deep - boils down to "I miss ad orientem so let's blow the whole thing up, pack it up, and End Times LARP." One has to be simultaneously profoundly blind to the far more murky, terrifying, abusive moments in the Church's history where the papacy was outright bought and sold or passed on to nephews, where the papal court was treated as little more than a bordello, when there was actual confusion about who even held the Seat with three or more competing claimants (sometimes with the real Pope reigning over the smaller faction) and also naive enough to then believe the Church collapsed during usual business in the 1960s. It requires one to have absolutely no faith in the Church at all. Martin Luther beheld a Church in it's darkest moments and even then his premise was flawed. I have seen some of the most aboherent rad-trad Twitter accounts gleefully share images of Satan pitchforking Luther in Hell. ... And then they post their own neo-Lutheranism (replacing his earned outrage for abuses with their inane whining.) It's Catholicism without certainty or hope and it's Protestantism with dynamism or coherence. Sedevacantism/privationism is the very worst of both worlds, a theology that would prefer to see the Church disintegrate if only to validate their liturgical preferences. What do sedes, even those "open" to the possibility that the Church is only sleeping and not entirely dead, really want to hear? They want a repudiation and retraction of a Church Council? And then what? Will other bishops insist we "revisit" Chalcedon or Nicaea or Trent or Florence? We are to be a Church of the Councils built on the Rock of Peter and yet we are then to regroup insisting we never really believed in the integrity of those Councils or the Petrine Office to begin with? More on reddit.com
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March 12, 2025
Sedeprivationism
It is a peculiar theory, which seems to be trying to get all the "benefits" of a sedevacantist position without accepting the rather-obvious drawbacks. But it also seems an entirely novel theory, and I suspect one would struggle in vain to find support for it amongst the Fathers or later theologians (though I've not done my homework to actually substantiate this). And ultimately I'm not sure what it really adds to the conversation. If one isn't looking for a way to disclaim the current Pope, and isn't of the erroneous opinion that anything and everything a Pope says is infallible, then it doesn't seem like a theory with much practical application. Is holding to the theory gravely sinful? It seems the sort of thing that at very least "smacks of heresy." And it would make one at least effectively schismatic. Also, it's also a fringe, crackpot-ey sort of thing. I'd steer clear of it. More on reddit.com
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April 27, 2021
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Grokipedia
grokipedia.com › sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism — Grokipedia
January 17, 2026 - Sedeprivationism, also termed the Cassiciacum Thesis, is a doctrinal stance within Traditionalist Catholicism asserting that the individuals elected to the papacy since the Second Vatican Council poss
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YourDictionary
yourdictionary.com › home › dictionary meanings › sedeprivationism definition
Sedeprivationism Definition & Meaning | YourDictionary
Sedeprivationism definition: The school of thought, in Roman Catholicism, that the popes from John XXIII were defective because of their modernist views.
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author-blog
thesedevacantistdelusion.com › fullorpartialpope
Full or Partial Pope?, The Sedevacantist Delusion
True Sedevacantists consider the Chair of Peter fully vacant whereas Sedeprivationists consider it “materially occupied” by a “potential” or partial pope. This difference may seem trivial but it has important consequences for the Sedevacantists as Partial Pope theorists muddy the position just enough to draw Sedevacantists ever closer to the R & R traditionalist camp on the left. The main difference between Partial Pope theorists and R & R traditionalists is the former believe a partial pope has *no* powers of the papacy until he becomes full pope whereas R & R traditionalists believe in a full pope with *some* powers of the papacy that are only exercised when Robert Siscoe says so.
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Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sedevacantism
Sedevacantism - Wikipedia
2 weeks ago - After the death of Paul VI in 1978, the opportunity to do this had passed and Guérard des Lauriers was forced, by the logic of his own arguments, to adopt the position of sedeprivationism in 1979 – breaking with sedevacantism proper or “totalism” as it is sometimes called – claiming ...
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Traditional Catholic Weeb
traditionalcatholicweeb.wordpress.com › 2019 › 05 › 11 › st-pius-v-corner-sedeprivationism
St. Pius V Corner: Sedeprivationism – The Traditional Catholic Weeb
June 17, 2019 - Unlike mainstream sedevacantism, however, there is a catch: whereas mainstream sedevacantism says that the current line of Popes is both invalid, and that there is no solution to restore the Papacy, sedeprivationism presents a way that the non-pope can become a Pope formally: by renouncing his errors of Vatican II, and getting himself ordained and consecrated by a traditionalist bishop.
Find elsewhere
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Taylor Marshall
taylormarshall.com › 2008 › 06 › is-mel-gibson-sedevacantist.html
Is Mel Gibson a Sedevacantist? Sedevacantism verses Sedeprivationism - Taylor Marshall
May 24, 2019 - The term means that there is a privation in the occupant of the chair of Saint Peter, i.e. something lacking. According to sedeprivationism, Popes John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II and Benedict XVI were and are defective popes because ...
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/catholicism › [deleted by user]
[deleted by user] : r/Catholicism
January 11, 2026 - Sedeprivationism is the idea that if the pope errs in some significant way, he stops being the pope and you don't have to listen to him, even though all the bishops of the world still recognize him as the leader of the Church.
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/catholicism › what are the problems with the sedepriv position?
r/Catholicism on Reddit: What are the problems with the sedepriv position?
March 12, 2025 -

Can someone try to to refute this position? I’ve heard about it before I’m curious if anyone can provide me a good refutation

Top answer
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If the Popes are capable of authoritatively teaching heresy and the world's bishops in near unanimity can define and declare heresy in an ecumenical Council, and the papacy can be impotently held for generations, if not centuries or even forever, lacking their sacramental, teaching, and even liturgical authority, then the Catholic Church is dead and probably always was - that's the problem of sedeprivationism. The papacy lost it's true authority now? At least Protestants offer a more realistic end date around the time of Constantine. Sede theology - when you really dig deep - boils down to "I miss ad orientem so let's blow the whole thing up, pack it up, and End Times LARP." One has to be simultaneously profoundly blind to the far more murky, terrifying, abusive moments in the Church's history where the papacy was outright bought and sold or passed on to nephews, where the papal court was treated as little more than a bordello, when there was actual confusion about who even held the Seat with three or more competing claimants (sometimes with the real Pope reigning over the smaller faction) and also naive enough to then believe the Church collapsed during usual business in the 1960s. It requires one to have absolutely no faith in the Church at all. Martin Luther beheld a Church in it's darkest moments and even then his premise was flawed. I have seen some of the most aboherent rad-trad Twitter accounts gleefully share images of Satan pitchforking Luther in Hell. ... And then they post their own neo-Lutheranism (replacing his earned outrage for abuses with their inane whining.) It's Catholicism without certainty or hope and it's Protestantism with dynamism or coherence. Sedevacantism/privationism is the very worst of both worlds, a theology that would prefer to see the Church disintegrate if only to validate their liturgical preferences. What do sedes, even those "open" to the possibility that the Church is only sleeping and not entirely dead, really want to hear? They want a repudiation and retraction of a Church Council? And then what? Will other bishops insist we "revisit" Chalcedon or Nicaea or Trent or Florence? We are to be a Church of the Councils built on the Rock of Peter and yet we are then to regroup insisting we never really believed in the integrity of those Councils or the Petrine Office to begin with?
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If that's some edgy thing that makes the current Pope not the valid and authoritive Pope, then the problem is that it does that. Let's go back to prayer now.
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Infogalactic
infogalactic.com › info › Sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core
August 13, 2018 - Accordingly, Sedeprivationism might be defined as an ecclesiastical Catholic position that the papacy, the See of Peter, is not obtained and held in conformity with one of two prescribed requirements of a legitimate papal election by the Novus Ordo popes.
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En Academic
en-academic.com › dic.nsf › enwiki › 1570455
Sedeprivationism
Sédéprivationnisme — Au sein du mouvement traditionaliste catholique, le sédéprivationnisme est une école idéologique ou un parti qui suit les principes du défunt théologien français Michel Louis Guérard des Lauriers, o.p., tels ...
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Reddit
reddit.com › r/catholicism › sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism : r/Catholicism
April 27, 2021 - Sedeprivationism is a belief that the current Pope is legitimate, but he lacks the authority and ability to teach or to govern (usually because he embraces what are considered heretical teachings of Vatican II). Such a belief constitutes material schism: "the refusal of submission to the Supreme ...
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Pre-vaticanii
pre-vaticanii.com › faqs
FAQs – Pre-Vatican II
Sedevacantism is the position held by some people who identify as Catholic that the present occupier of the Holy See is not truly the pope due to the mainstream church’s espousal of what they see as the heresy of modernism and that, for lack of a valid pope, the See has been vacant since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958 or the death of Pope John XXIII in 1963.
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The Kurgan Blog
thekurganblog.com › sedeprivationism-vs-sedevacantism-an-explanation
Sedeprivationism vs Sedevacantism an Explanation « The Kurgan Blog
April 22, 2025 - As I said in my book RTCC at the end, the term Sedeprivationist today, should really only be used for two reasons: Etymologically it is a more correct term, because strictly speaking, the chair (sede) of Peter is not actually empty (vacante) but rather it is filled by an impostor that is preventing (privation) the proper filling of it by a valid Bishop.
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Reference
reference.org › facts › Sedeprivationism › JCVCGw8U
Sedeprivationism - Reference.org
Traditionalist Catholic doctrine ... Vatican Council · Sedeprivationism is a doctrinal position within Traditionalist Catholicism which holds that the current occupant of the Holy See ......
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Wikiwand
wikiwand.com › en › articles › Sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism - Wikiwand
Sedeprivationism is a doctrinal position within Traditionalist Catholicism invented by the excommunicated theologian Michel-Louis Guérard des Lauriers[1] which holds that the current occupant of the Holy See is a duly-elected pope, but lacks the authority and ability to teach or to govern ...
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Explained
everything.explained.today › \ › Sedeprivationism
Sedeprivationism Explained
Sedeprivationism is a doctrinal position within Traditionalist Catholicism which holds that the current occupant of the Holy See is a duly-elected pope, but lacks the authority and ability to teach or to govern unless he recants the changes brought by the Second Vatican Council.[1] The doctrine asserts that since this council, occupants of the See of Peter are popes materialiter sed non formaliter, that is "materially but not formally".